So, as many of you may know, one of President Obama's first executive orders was to close secret prisons and detention camps.
Read this article from the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/us/politics/23GITMOCND.html?_r=1&sq=guantanomo%20bay&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1232730098-Gv2vQbZcCbOWMdIvjdN4Gg
There is also a video that you can watch, too.
One more thing before you comment. MAKE SURE that you look at the the docket that was only just now unclassified (link: http://projects.nytimes.com/guantanamo). How does looking at this docket make you feel? Does it raise any larger questions about the nature of humanity?
What do you think? What are some of the implications of this? You can talk about anything! However we are intelligent adults. DO NOT write I think this is good/bad and leave it at that. Life is never that simple -- we all know this. Tell us WHY you think what you do! This is a conversation.
Technically Obama is taking the higher road in this situation. It is not right to subject people to "disappear," cutting them off from their families or any contact of the outside world whatsoever. Though, a large part of the public/media feels they might deserve it, and for all we know, they do, the ends still do not jusify means. The scarier thought about all this though is questioning what will happen to all of these threats to society. Will they be transferred to just another comfortable jail? It's a strange thought thinking what this new decision could bring movement too. Will it give potential terrorists hope of escaping a once possible fate of disappearance now that guantanmo will soon be no longer? Personally, those prisoners might of deserved that fate but Obama speaks true when he said "America is not setting an example." When the rest of the world sees that we have "forgiven and forgotten" as a nation, well that must count for something.
ReplyDeleteI just watched the movie Rendition tonight, and for those of you who aren't aware of what it's about....
ReplyDeleteIt's about a man who gets taken captive when he is suspected to be involved with terrorists. He is stolen from an airport and transported to a deserted prison, like those at guantanamo. He was not allowed to call his family and even let them know that he is alive. In this case, this man was innocent and eventually was set free but endured horrible forms of torturing like water boarding in the mean time. It is scary to think that there have probably been real live cases of innocent men dying from these inhumane methods of torture. Its extremely unsettling and I think that Obama made a great decision in calling these prisons quits.
I believe Obamas choce was a smart one. I mean what does America stand for anyway? We dont allow tourtue in pur prison systems here, but we would allow them to in Cuba? Something dosent seem right there. Honestly Im completely sick of this terroist talk for everyones sake the definition of terrorism according to websters online dictionary,"the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear." Therefore a teorrist could be anywhere, not just in the middle east or guantanmo bay. The fact of the matter is Obama made the decision to do what America stands for.
ReplyDeleteCatlin I did not think about the idea of where they will be placed now that Guantanamo Bay is closed. I think they will be moved to another prison where they will be able to atleast contact thier families.
ReplyDeleteI feel torn as to how Guantanamo Bay will be followed out. I do believe what Obama is doing is the right thing. Torturing prisoners is wrong even if they have caused a horrible act. Just because their not on American soil doesn't mean we can take them to foriegn soil and put all different acts of torture on them. The idea is still wrong. My ideas change when I think of the prisoners being released to their home country. For all we know their country could have been behind their terrorist attack and waiting for them with open arms. I don't feel that the prisoners should be returned to their home country, I feel there should be another form of prison where they can be transferred. I have sympathy for the prisoners because some were not able to inform anyone of where they had disappeared too. I believe they should be able to telephone or send a letter of some sort to inform their loved ones of what had happened. But before their form of communication can be sent, it would need to be reviewed to make sure that another terrorist attack wouldn't occur by opening contact again. Again I feel split on this controversy. This argument can go either way
ReplyDeleteObama’s decision to close secret prisons and detention camps across seas, in my opinion was an excellent move. Although we took people from their homelands with good intentions in mind—to stop possible attacks on the U.S. and throughout the world-- these actions are not justified. If the U.S. wants to be a world power and a leader, it is our responsibility to set an example. I believe that is what Obama has done. We have put our foot down and are finally standing up for human rights. These camps and detention centers are not okay in any sense. Many may argue that because these camps were not on under U.S. jurisdiction, that they would get away with the wrongdoings taking place. That is not true. Just because these camps were not on American soil, does not mean that electrocution, water boarding, and employing torture are justified. Human rights come first.
ReplyDeleteCaitlin, that's so funny that you watched Rendition and thought to tie it to this blog because I was thinking the exact same thing... I had to see the movie last semester for multicultural film...
ReplyDeleteGreat minds think alike :)
I find the closing of Guantanamo Bay to be the proper thing to do. However, In terms of this issue as a whole, i can honestly say that i'm torn. What are we to do with the prisoner's once the facility is closed? Are we to send them back to their home countries? Are we supposed to ship them off to other overseas detainee centers? All of these questions mark the reasons why this is such a debated issue. Also it has been said that some of the interrogation tactics that have been used have been improper and completely unjust. Though we should not have any extremely intense,secret, and "coersive" interrogation methods going on in such a facilitiy, the big question to ask is, "do we make all of these tactics public." This is another issue where i am extremely torn. Do we make all of our tactics public and risk terrorist organizations finding them out so they can train their members to simply not be affected by such techniques. At the same time i ask if we have nothing to hide why do we have such secret tactics in the first place. There are far too many questions to be asked on this subject especially when not all of the information is yet available to the public. What i can say is that tactics such as water boarding are extremely unjust. Yeah im sure if you torture a person you could get them to say just about anything you want but what does it say of us as a country and as an organization if our best method of getting confessions is through torture? At the same time i can also say, if we do these tactics on an individual accused of a terror plot, does it make it okay if we could save a great number of our own people? I know i am asking more questions than i really am discussing the issue but i think in order for me to give an appropriate answer to such questions the public needs to be more well informed on the issue at hand. As of now, we do not know everything that is going on or what is going to happen next for that matter which does make it hard to come up with a completely solid answer. What i can say is that the closing of this facility seems to be the proper move, i'm just worried about what is to come afterwords.
ReplyDeletei agree with caitlin when she says it is not right to make these people completely just disappear from their families. It is one thing if you want to bring up criminal charges on someone, but to make them completley vanish and have their families, who may not have a clue what their loved one was involved in, worry like crazy is just plain wrong. How would you feel if you came home one day and your spouse was just gone without a trace and you didnt find out till say moths later that he was being held in a facility away from his home on criminal charges. You have to think about it like that to truly understand the situation.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like so far everyone is torn on the subject. They believe its the right thing to do to close down Guantanamo Bay but don't think the prisoners should be let back into their home country. If Obama can plan another route for the prisoners maybe we would be more at ease.
ReplyDeleteLikewise with Brieonna and Caitlin, it was not right to take these people from their homes without the knowledge of family, friends, etc. I do, however, understand why it was done in this matter--to prevent people from coming to rescue them/cause harm.
ReplyDeleteClosing down Guantanamo Bay is exactly what needs to be done. The fact that our country, which is supposed to represent the free world, went on with that type of operation for so long is not good. Being a terrorist does not exempt one from being a human no matter how much they deserve being treated badly, and that is something not many people seem to remember. Furthermore, some of the people being held there may not even be terrorists. Either way we have certain rules that must be followed closely or else it opens up the door for all kinds of crazy ideas pertaining to the treatment of people. Obama definitely made the right decision and even though it may be hard to find a new place for these prisoners that doesn't mean shutting down Guantanamo Bay isn't the right thing to do. Not everything that needs to be done is easy. I hope this country can keep on the track of positivity, it is exactly what we need right now. We need to rise above what others do and start setting the example.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Arianna that what Obama decided to do is what America stands for and needs to stand for if we expect to be a leader in the world.
ReplyDeleteI think that the closing of Guantanamo bay is overall a good thing. Guantanamo has become a black eye on the face of America in the eyes of the world. There are many aspects to this argument. One aspect being that as the supposed leader of the world we are indebted with conducting ourselves beyond reproach and institutions such as Guantanamo have tarnished our reputation and our ability to present ourselves as morally upstanding leaders. Another aspect is the concept of do as we say, not as we do. This is basically what is implied when the world looks at Guantanamo, an American institution, as a cess-pool of torture and illegal incarceration, whether it is true or not. In keeping institutions like Guantanamo open it gives people more and more reason to hate America. I am not opposed to the closing of Guantanamo but in closing the prison I think that very careful measures should be taken to ensure that people who are dangerous to society not be allowed to regain freedom.
ReplyDeleteSome people have proposed that many of the detainees be transferred to prisons inside the United States. I consider this to be an absolutely ludicrous idea. If this was to happen it would most certainly be a joyous event for individuals who would try to use force to free the detainees. I do not think that American prisons are equipped to handle this type of prisoner. This is evident on many levels, it would not be prudent to put these prisoners inside American prisons, not just for the safety of other prisoners but also for their own safety. It would probably be only a short time before other prisoners would band together and attempt to exact their own form of justice. Many would say hold them separately but then that goes beyond the very complaint that they are being held in solitary confinement in Guantanamo. Additionally you could consider American prisons as a “soft” target relative to military prisons that are equipped to handle a full on attack from people that would attempt to break their comrades free. Many police forces are already outgunned by criminals and American prisons which are underfunded and undermanned are already at risk of riots. Can they honestly handle a threat of that magnitude?
The United States should act in accordance with its principles when it detains individuals for whatever reasons. As far as combatants being able to contact their families, this is written into the Geneva Conventions, Article 70. It states that upon capture or within one week of arriving at a detention facility they be allowed to contact their families and inform them of their status and health. This is not a quote but a basic summarization. The Geneva Conventions outlines all of the regulations or guidelines for the treatment of Prisoners of War. Even if our enemies do not follow these guidelines, we, who are supposed to be leaders to the world should take the moral high ground and follow the rules that we expect everyone else to follow. With all that being said, I do not think that the actions of our clandestine organizations should be made transparent. While it is probably incredibly idealistic to assume that secret prisons will be run in accordance with the law I think that with the kind of circumstances and the level of danger that the inhabitants of such prisons exhibit the prisons should be kept as secret as possible. That is the purpose of our system. There are checks and balances and as we elect our officials, who in turn appoint individuals to run these systems, we need to be able to trust them to act in accordance with the principles that America stands for.
Personally I don’t agree with Obama’s decision to close these secret camps. Yes, it must be horrible for the families of these people who are swooped away without anyone knowing where their families are, but it is cost that I am willing to live with. The security of a nation is more important to me than some family who is worried about their dad. American Intel is great, and none of these captured people are detained because of their name or race. These people are taken because of their proven connections to terrorist organizations. These people should not be associated with these organizations if they do not want to be targeted by the American government. The American government has successfully defended this country for years with methods like this one. So I feel comfortable knowing that camps like these exist because I know they are doing this to protect my freedom and protect my Country.
ReplyDeleteWow, I didnt know how to respond at his at first. First I'm thinking why is he willing to release all these criminals, surel they must have done something that would deserve to be punished for. Then, as i got to reading as it turns out in Guatanamo Bay, Cuba they're not punihing these suspected criminals, they're torturing them. In some cases even killing them. They are breaking all kinds of Geneva Convention rulses and taking matters into thete own hands and that just plainly is not allowed. Personally, i checked the lists of possible realesed criminals from Cuba and i will admit i was a little terrified to see so many muslim names. It's like can all of thee guys have possibly been involved in commiting a terrorist atttack on the United States. Either way, I must say that I agree with Obama and we have to do something about these prisons. I just hope we don't regret whatever decision we make.
ReplyDeleteMarcus, i definetely know where your coming from, hopefully though they fairfully try all these dudes and lock em up the right way, i guess.
ReplyDeleteI think that it was not the right decision to decide to shut down the prison. The people who are there are there for a reason. It doesnt matter what reason they are there for there is a reason. I'm one of those people who isn't for or against torture. I think that it needs to be looked at in a case by case basis, so if they're torturing people then they must think that they have information that could potentially save American lives. There are so many different issues on torture and some people are 100% against torture no matter what and others would say the same but if you told them that torturing one person could lead to 100's of American soldiers or even American citizens lives being saved they might have another view on it. I think that if we let them out now they will be so mad at America that they might very well do something drastic. The bottom line is, Obama has his reasons and we have to trust his judgement because he is in fact the president.
ReplyDeleteMorgan
ReplyDeleteWhat you said about free right coming first is a good point and I agree that it is important. Even though this particular prison gets shut down there will still be acts of torture and injustice that will happen in other places and there most likely always will be, because there will always be "bad guys" with information who won't want to cooperate. Your also right about the chance that some of the detainees could be innocent. But in the end the decision has been made and we can only wait and see how it turns out.
Marcus, I agree with you that America should not close its secret prisons but Guantanamo wasn't exactly a secret. Its notoriety was counterproductive to the very principle of a secret prison. In addition, its notoriety also cast a negative perception on American image, helping to create even more people who wish to do harm to our citizens. I am in 100% agreement that America should take every action possible in accordance with its laws to apprehend any person who would wish to do harm to America or her citizens but I also feel that Guantanamo has fulfilled its purpose and is now counterproductive. I do not think these people should just be released however. As for the docket listing the names, I don't think this says anything particular about humanity. It just illustrates that that we spend most of our time in targeting individuals who happen to belong to organizations such as Al-Qaeda which happens to be based particularly in that region. That list contained somewhere around 700 names if I remember correctly. That is an insignificant amount compared to the number of Arabs or Muslims in the world, a fragment of a percent.
ReplyDeleteI am really unsure about the descision to shut down the prison. While i disagree with taking people without notification to anyone and imprisoning them without anyrights of fair trial, i also believe that our government has a need to keep our country safe. This will sometimes include going off of hunches to take down or imprison people expected of working with terrorist groups. One thing i think we definately need to do is figure out a way to allow them to contact family to let them know they are alive. Problem with that is that if they contact someone else within their terrorist group and the country or group decides to take action it could be engaging us in unneccesary warfare. This makes the entire debate very questionable. While what we are doing definately is not right, it is almost neccesary in a way to keep our country safe. In some instances it may be unjust, but in others it could be protecting our country from even more unjust things. I believe the cases probably just about even out.
ReplyDeleteI agree with aaron, it would be fair to give fair trial to those we lock up eventually. Keeping them there for nearly ten years without even a chance of a trial seems hypocritical to the entire base of our government
ReplyDeleteI personally believe that closing Guantanamo Bay is the right thing to do. It is horrible to think that people are being brutally torture and sometimes killed, just to maybe get some useful information. As Americans we are suppose to be the moral leaders. How is torturing people ethical. There must be a more human way in retrieving information. Their must be a more appropriate way to punish these criminals. I believe that these criminals should not be released by any means. They clearly did something to deserve to be held captive. It is also imperative to keep these criminals out of American prisons. This could only cause further problems. Who knows what these prisoners are capable of. Many of them are terrorists that do not care what harm they do to other people. I believe that the most important thing for Americans to do is protect our nation cause the least about of harm on other human beings. We should fight for what is right. American helps many countries out. It is always interesting to think about who is in our moral universe? Why do we choose to spare some lives and don't nothing about others? I believe Obama is doing his best as resident to do what is best for Americans.
ReplyDeleteKevin,
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you when you said that it is America's duty to keep our country safe. It would seem right to allow them to contact their families. Perhaps they should be allowed to contact their families but have the calls be monitored. I am sure America is doing the best they can with different situations.
To be honest, I can't say for sure whether or not President Obama's executive decision to close all overseas prisons is going to be a good idea or not. There is the concern of national security and insuring that the "bad guys" are being kept locked up and under control. However, there is the issue of natural human rights and whether or not supposed "torturing" methods were humane.
ReplyDeleteI Personally believe President Obama has the right mindset in protecting human rights, though I think his action in closing Guantanamo Bay within the year is drastic. It is an important facility for the United States and while their interrogation methods have historically and publically been interpretted as inhuman, I think regulation as to what goes on in these prison camps would have been more effective. Prisons are important, as is protecting human rights. So instead, I would have instilled new rules and regulation clearly outlining what can and can't be done in these camps. Up to that point, there was no clear definition of where interrogation ends and torture begins. This needs to be decided and agreed upon and it must be able to show effectiveness in information gathering but still show concern for the safety of those interrogated, even if they are accused of murder to any degree.
Everyone!
ReplyDeleteI agree in the sense that there is no clear cut solution to this issue. In fact, it's not longer an issue because the decision has already been made. But for the sake of argument, I do believe that in some respect everyone is correct for I believe there really can't be a wrong answer as to whether or not shutting down Guantanamo Bay was a right move but the new President. Personally, I find the move drastic, whereas the President clearly found it urgent. I'm not disagreeing with the President's move but I do believe there should have been a clearly plan to move away from torture and harsh interrogation that inhibit human rights opposed to closing the facilities.
Such plan could have included the transportation of detainees to a central facility and slowly closing down each facility. There should still remain a center to contain members of the C.I.A.'s most wanted list and other key actors in the world terrorist stage. Members of the terrorist group Al Qaeda who have been caught need to kept in captivity. A facility needs to remain in order to do such act and where Guantanamo Bay filled such void, there must now be an alternate.
as i read through this comments on this topic i saw that everyone made very good points about the situation. i am still very unsure about how i feel about the closing of guantanamo bay. I believe that Obama was making a very bold statement concerning human rights when closing this prison. although I believe that each prisoner detained was there for a specific reason. i think that our country's safety is a key objective especially for our new president Obama. I understand how it does seem horrible for members of a family to go missing but if we were to go into depth of the family's connection as to a terrorist group then i'm sure it'd benefit our country for them not to be in contact with their family. as for the alleged torturing that has taken place at guatanamo i'm not sure if this has been proven or what not but unfortunately people do bad things. i mean for example terrorism. i know that we all wish to say that america is perfect but in this case we can't theres many examples were we have made mistakes. i dont justify our acts when it comes to the tortures. but i can't say i completely disagree with their imprisonment. i'm just torn all together to be honest.
ReplyDeletei also have seen rendition and thought it was a very eye opening movie to see the torture scenes were very realistic and hard to watch at times. the specific scene that stands out to me is where the man accused of being a terrorist is asked to give a list of names and he gives them a list of names to stop the torture jake gyllenhals character figures out that its actually a soccer team and he made up the names to stop the pain. i actually had a conversation with my friend who had a lecture about people confessing for other crimes. the way our minds work is unexplainable...torturing people for information....and then confessing to crimes we dont commit?
ReplyDeleteClosing Guantanamo Bay I believe is one of the best messages our government can send to the world. This prison camp has become a symbol of how our government has become hypocrics. These prison camps are not acceptable for us because we are better than what we have been displaying. We are holding prisoners who may or may not be gulity for months and some years without a proper trial. For some the implications of this happening means that we will be less safe, but at what price. By closing this prison we show that we don't have to belittle oursleves or our rights for anyone. Feeling safe doesn't mean taking away our or others civil rights reguardless if someone is gulity or not. The reaction from the rest of the world should be a good one because it shows that America is once again ready to lead again. Obama's platform over the election cycle was change that you can believe in, so I think this is the right step in the right direction. It's time to show the world that the United States does not torture!!
ReplyDeleteI must say I disagree with Marcus comment because these prisoners have not been convicted of anything yet. They haven't had the proper trials yet to determine if they are gulity of any actions. I don't think we should be taking the rights of others to protect our own because we are no greater than anyone else. The American intel is not as great as it should be, because if it was we would not be in Iraq at this moment!
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